If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. A cam with a tighter LSA will require a looser torque converter, may not be able to run vacuum-assisted brakes, and doesn't play nice with fuel injection. Cam and Lifters, Hydraulic Roller Tappet, Advertised Duration 282/288, Lift .589/.600, Chevy, Big Block, Kit. hydraboost is the same as a vacuum brakebooster, only the booster is replaced by a unit that does the same but under hydraulic pressure. 106 LSA: On the contrary, if we look at the 106 LSA, we will find it more advantageous and energy efficient than the 110 LSA engine. I've heard similar cams (only about 5*'s off) and they have a nice rumble to them. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. 110 will be a bit punchier in the midrange and probalby make a little more peak horsepower as long as a good exhaust is used. 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. How to Choose a Camshaft for Street Vehicles - OnAllCylinders LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 Richard Holdener 239K subscribers 168K views 2 years ago WESTECH PERFORMANCE GROUP FULL RESULTS-CHANGE ONLY LSA-LS CAM TEST. I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 - YouTube Yeah but do the experiment on the dyno and tell me your intuition is correct. Some of the programs like engine analyzer pro and dynomation seem to like some of the wider lsa's.Thanks again JOE. its got a 3.73 posi and the Stock 4 speed with a very low 3.42 1st gear. But for small-block Chevys (like the LS applications in this story), the LSA is ground into the cam. As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. I am pretty sure, right now, you find yourself in the middle of the rising debate of 106 vs 110 lobe separation angle. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. thanks. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"? The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. what does 112+2 lsa mean?? - LS1GTO Forums The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. It also depends on displacement, some guys will run a bigger cam and widen the LCA to give a better idle but in my opinion it kills power. This has been my long time understanding! Going from a 110 to 112 lobe separtaion - Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum The 402 was run with a FAST LSXR LS3 intake and matching 102mm throttle body along with stock LS3 rockers, a Holley HP management system and 7.4-inch hardened pushrods (from Comp Cams). 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. 106 LSA: You can see an increasing EGR effect at 106 LSA. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. The 290 advertised duration and 114 lobe separation would contribute to a lazy power curve. Professionally ported & polished iron 4V head with titanium intake valves, stainless exhaust, titanium retainers & keepers & dual springs. The 114 LSA is good for a blower or nitros motor. This recommendation is only if you shift at no more than 7000. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. Lobe Separation Angle. - 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum These issues can often be worked through by an advanced tuner, but always present a challenge and compromise in tuning strategy. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. To demonstrate changes to lobe separation in action, we ordered three camshafts from Comp Cams, all ground with identical lift (0.541 intake and 0.537 exhaust) and duration (230 intake and 236 exhaust) but with three different LSAs: a 101, a 107, and a 113. Usually, this separation angle ranges from 95-degree to 120-degree. turbo camshafts lobe centers and lobe separation The custom cams we selected all featured 0.624-inch lift (both intake and exhaust) and a 232/242-degree duration split. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. Thanks. Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. The only reason I . You can research your heads to find out where yours are, but honestly I don't think it will be worth the effort on a tow vehicle. by bug1914 Tue May 13, 2003 2:56 am, Post On the cranking compression test, Brul recorded 175 psi, a 10-psi drop from the outgoing 101 cam. If the cylinder heads are the lungs of an engine, the camshaft is the brain. The exhaust has an opening even and a closing event. I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. ALL bolts are ARP. . If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. LS Exhaust Manifold Bolt Torque (Everything You Need To Know), Holley Power Valve Sizes: Everything There is to Know. A Pro Stock engine builder may prefer a wide LSA to help keep the power from breaking traction tOo early. The 112-degree cam (red lines) picked up much of the torque, but the big winner was the cam with the tightest lobe separation angle. In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. The takeaway is simple on the surface: A tighter LSA makes more low-end and peak torque at the expense of just a few top-end ponies. Read More Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About ThemContinue, What causes a car to bog down when accelerating? Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. FWIW. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. In reality, a cam with 220 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 112 will have the exact same mechanical overlap as a cam with 217 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 109. A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. Frankly cams with a 108-114 lca unless in the perfect combo you won't usually see more than 15hp and you won't really feel the difference except for either a peaky or broad power band. In the 106 LSA, the engine can reach the maximum torque, making the driving more efficient and saving energy. He also enjoys reading books a lot and his favorite author is Paula Coelho. A tighter LSA is always going to have more overlap, which allows the exhaust and intake systemif they're tuned wellto work together.". As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. Once more the engine came apart to install the third test cam, a 107 LSA. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. Only once the intake valve has closed can compression begin to build. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. That is why 106 LSA consumes less oil. Camshafts Demystified - CarTechBooks 68 Mustang, 306, AFR 185\'s, CI cam, FPA\'s, Bigs 650 DP, T5Z, 9" w/4.33's. According to the Comp Cams catalog, "The lobe separation angle (LSA) is equal to 1/2 the angle in crankshaft degrees of rotation between the maximum exhaust valve lift and maximum intake lift.". also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. Knife edged & profiled 4MA Cleveland crank weighing 50lbs. Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts Mailbag: Camshaft Lobe Separation, Nitrous Oxide & How They Relate Your email address will not be published. Supercharged and nitrous race engines typically benefit from a wider LSA because they dont require as much overlap for exhaust scavenging as does the naturally aspirated engine, continues Bolander. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. 554"/577" lift. 110 LSA: On the contrary, at 110 LSA, the engine fails to reach the maximum torque, resulting in a decrease in torque rate. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. 114 vs 110 lobe sep. on cam | NastyZ28.com I'd also go to a 110-112 lobe separation angle. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle: Real Impacts You Must Learn It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. Come join the discussion about popular models such as the Mustang, Galaxie, Falcon, Fairlane, Torino, Shelby and many more! This may be of concern if you have vacuum assisted accessories, such as power brakes or steering. by trmnatr Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:45 pm, Post A narrower lobe separation angle can provide less power but can also lead to less wear. I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. It had a robust powerband with tons of usable torque. I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. Lobe separation angles, he continues, are influenced by the camshaft grind. The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. A 232 deg duration cam with a 108 deg LCA will have the same valve overlap as a 236 deg cam with a 110 deg LCA and idle will probably be very similar. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. That lopey idle that is universally loved, and part of the allure of a tight LSA cam, is actually misfire caused from a combination of exhaust dilution in the intake manifold and poor cylinder filling at idle. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. Lobe Separation or Lobe Centers is another way of expressing the Valve Overlap, which was the term formerly used by cam manufacturers before industry standard verbiage changed. 110 LSA: But, contrarily, at 110 LSA, you dont have to face the problem of engine knocking. This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. Mechanical aspects like maximum torque, narrower powerband, higher cranking compression rate, efficient compression rate, effective EGR effect, and lower oil consumption rate increase the car engines efficiency and make it energy efficient. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. Also present during testing was a set of 1 7/8-inch Kooks headers, Comp hydraulic roller lifters, and F-body oil pan. I will be running an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with a Quick Fuel 750cfm with a screw adjustable vacuum secondary; it's called the Pro-vac. The final, 108-degree cam stepped power up even further, with peaks of 572 hp at 6,300 rpm and 544 lb-ft at 5,200 rpm. The world of fuel injection is where wide LSA cams like the 113 really shine. I had an XE 274 in it. The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. All rights reserved. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. The lower the lobe seperation,, ie. Despite no changes in lift or duration, this cam sounded much more aggressive than the other two with wider LSAs. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. The SAME can be said. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? | Vintage Mustang Forums It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. But, the internal processings are much more complicated. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. by mike thompson Tue May 13, 2003 4:03 am, Post I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. Lunati's New Bootlegger Camshaft Series Has Strong Race - Dragzine Part Number: HRS-CL120325-08. If identical and for a given displacement the 110 will give more power. Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. The balance of midrange torque and top-end horsepower lends this LSA range to the majority of street/strip engines. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. but less of it at the same time. Equipped with the 120-degree (LSA) cam, the hybrid stroker produced 570 hp at 6,200 rpm and 535 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm. A cam's lobe separation determines where and for how long peak torque occurs in an engine's rpm range. As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. It will sound lovely I'm sure. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts 112-110 Deg. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Coupled that with the low first gear of the five speed, it ought to create some real traction problems. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. Defining Lobe Center - Clay Smith Cams 110 LSA: The 110 LSA shows up mechanically advantageous in mechanical aspects like higher RPM, lower engine knock, moderate cylinder pressure, improved idle vacuum, and higher piston-to-valve clearance. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. 114 lsa cam sound clips | LS1LT1 Forum A few other major and, Read More Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When AcceleratingContinue, Your email address will not be published. The only reason the advance or retard a camshaft profile is to get the timing events where they need to be. To reiterate another point, I realize that wider LSAs tend to broaden the power band, but for a car I would like to bracket race a bit, as well as enjoy on the street, I was told that a narrower LSA will help the car accelerate at a faster rate. There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. Hey guys, can anyone tell me how rough of a idle a cam would be with a 108 lobe separation? Lobe Separation Angle 110 Vs 112 - Truck Guider indeed, expect low vacuum with anything lower than 110-ish. by MELWAY Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:18 pm, Post The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. Do you like to go fast? by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:36 pm, Post so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. 08 Additional components used to build the stroker included a set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, ARP head studs, and a new oil pump. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). Compression willl be 9.75:1. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. OK, what is hydraboost, and how do you like how the cam performs??? 112 vs 114 lobe centers You cannot tell the differance in the two .
